This post is attacking
what I consider to be faulty reasoning. It's
not a personal attack on ItsTheWoo, who I like (even though she drives me up the wall, sometimes!).
See
What I believe and what I don't.The basic
The Energy Balance Equation:-
Change in body stores = Ein - EoutFor a detailed mathematical analysis of weight change, see
Completing the trine: vive la différence! From
Back to black, CIAB, pharmaceutical drug deficiencies & nerds:-
Where body weight is concerned, calories count (
but don't bother trying to count them).
Where body composition is concerned,
partitioning counts.
Where health is concerned, macronutrient ratios, EFAs, minerals, vitamins & lifestyles count.
The faulty reasoning is in
Dear Nigel and other CICO zealots: you are ignorant. Charming!
I'll quote passages from it and refute them, one by one.
- "With a zero caloric deficit, there is zero weight change"
"FACT: Calories neither determine weight OR body composition with certainty. Nigel / some CICO zealots may agree body composition changes are privy to nutrition, but wt is 100% controlled by calories. This is something they pretty much made up and biological science does not at all support this idea. Calories neither control body composition OR body weight/mass with any certainty. The bulk consumed with fork and spoon does not need to stick on your body in the form of a mass laden tissue, ever."
Calories determine weight change. See
Bray et al shows that a calorie *is* a calorie (where weight change is concerned). It would have been nice if Fig. 6 had contained a plot of "Effect of energy intake on change in body weight", but it didn't.
LBM = Lean Body Mass
FM = Fat Mass = Body FatWeight change = LBM change + FM changeWeight change varies from ~+3.5kg (@ +2,500kJ/d) to ~+9.1kg (@ +5,900kJ/d).
(Maximum weight increase)/(minimum weight increase) = 2.6
(Maximum kJ/day increase)/(minimum kJ/day increase) = 2.36
∴ A calorie IS a calorie (where weight change is concerned).∴ Insufficient
protein can result in
loss of LBM (bad).
The main thrust of ItsTheWoo's argument is that inter-personal variations in weight gain from subject to subject, invalidates Bray's conclusion.
It doesn't.
Some subjects become
more energetic on a 40% caloric surplus, which
increases their NEAT & TEA, which
increases their Eout, which
reduces their weight gain.
Some subjects don't change their energy on a 40% caloric surplus, which doesn't change their NEAT & TEA, which results in intermediate weight gain.
Some subjects become
less energetic on a 40% caloric surplus, which
decreases their NEAT & TEA, which
decreases their Eout, which
increases their weight gain.
I believe that the
Insulin Sensitivity (IS) of the subject determines which category they fall into and by how much. The higher the IS, the higher the energy, as high IS results in low serum insulin, which minimises sedation.
Energy Balance always applies. I've never stated that Calories
exactly determine weight change. That's a strawman.
I've never stated that Calories determine body composition. That's a strawman.
- " Every subject [in bray's overfeeding study] gained weight (mostly fat mass) during the 40% energy excess overfeeding period. "
"Again, making crap up. There is NO RULE IN BIOLOGY which states all consumed energy must be retained as body mass. Indeed most typical people gain fat during overfeeding (with great resistance/inefficiency of fat gain), but
it is indeed possible to hardly gain any or none at all as in constitutional thinness. What happens during calorie consumption among different people (and perhaps, different DIETS and different TIMES and different ENDOCRINE situations...)
is a wild card determined by the biology i.e. neuroendocrine functions of the animal in question. There is NOTHING about physics which reflects / informs physiology other than the basic fact the latter exists within the former (which, again, tells us NOTHING ultimately).
How organisms process consumed nutrition is not a physics question. There is no freakin' law of physics or physiology for that matter which states nom nom time = thigh chub. You don't have to wear that pizza as a popeye's muscle or as a shelf butt."
Somewhere within all of the irrelevant waffle about rules & laws, ItsTheWoo raises an interesting point. Although a caloric surplus is
always required for weight gain,
eating more Calories can sometimes result in
zero weight gain. How so? From ItsTheWoo's link:-
"Conclusion: This data is the first to demonstrate a resistance to weight gain in constitutional thinness (CT) population in response to 4-week fat overfeeding,
associated with an increase in resting energy expenditure and an emphasised anorexigenic hormonal profile.
In CT people,
their energy expenditure increases in line with their energy intake. Therefore, even though they're eating more Calories, there's
no caloric surplus, therefore there's
no weight gain.
Energy Balance always applies.- "Yes, kcals do get wasted. You don't understand things quantitatively i.e. how many kcals get wasted."
"I know anxious/obsessional people like the safe feeling of balancing calories. The fact reality is more complex and you can't just enter things in a phone app and be ASSURED of what is going on in your body, doesn't invalidate the truth of the fact metabolic reactions are more complex THAN CALORIES.
Just because it is *impossible* for a reasonable free living human to quantify all of the metabolic, endocrine, nervous system factors influencing adipocyte growth changes does not mean they don't fucking exist."
ItsTheWoo left out my calculations. Here they are:-"if I eat 2000 calories of a ketogenic diet in 3 hrs,
most of it is wasted as heat, physical energy (I know, because I am EXTREMELY warm/energetic) and then the rest of time i am using a relatively greater percent of stored fat."
Do you know at what rate you're burning-off extra energy intake as heat energy output when you're "EXTREMELY warm/energetic"? Here's an estimate:-
If the mean TEF for your meal is
11% (assuming your meal is
50%E protein &
50%E fat), that's
220kcals (
921kJ) "wasted" as heat energy. That'll make you feel EXTREMELY warm, as
220kcal raises the temperature of
57kg of water (your body) by
3.84°C.
A
2,000kcal meal (a whole day's worth of food) takes a lot longer than 3 hours to digest & absorb. I'll guesstimate it as 24 hours.
921kJ of extra heat power over the course of
24 hours =
10.7W, which is an increase of
17.7% over your normal Metabolic Rate of
~60W heat power (~1kcal/minute).
It's easy to "prove" something by being vague. That's
PSEUDOSCIENCE. I do science. If you do the maths, you can see that, of the 2,000kcal ketogenic meal, most of it
isn't wasted as heat, because if most of it
is wasted as heat, ItsTheWoo would spontaneously combust!
- "Dr. Robert C. Atkins made the same fundamental cock-up when he said that humans pissed-out loads of kcals of ketones each day, giving a Metabolic Advantage to ketogenic diets."
"1) The advantage of a ketogenic diet (non-fasting) does exist, so it's not a 'cock up", even if his mechanism was wrong.
2) If atkins was wrong (you pee out all LCHF food)
who cares? That was 30+ years ago. He was a cardiologist who observed a VLC diet made him slim. He used his medical education to hypothesize a reason why. His hypothesis was wrong, but his observations were right. This happens all the time in science or basic human reasoning; make observations, form hypothesis. The hypothesis may be wrong, the findings are STILL RIGHT (i.e.
low carb diets DO make slim, just not via peeing away ketones)."
1)
There is no Metabolic Advantage to ketogenic diets. See
http://www.jbc.org/content/92/3/679.full.pdf2)
Atkins' observations were wrong. See
The Battle of the Diets: Is Anyone Winning (At Losing?)a) Low-Carb diets work
better than High-Carb diets for people who are
Insulin Resistant.
b) Low-Carb diets work
worse than High-Carb diets for people who are
Insulin Sensitive.
c) Low-Carb diets work
the same as High-Carb diets for
everybody in
Metabolic Ward Studies.
If there's a Metabolic Advantage to ketogenic diets, they would work better than high-carb diets
all the time. They don't. See
How low-carbohydrate diets result in more weight loss than high-carbohydrate diets for people with Insulin Resistance or Type 2 Diabetes for my hypothesis, which explains a), b)
and c).
